Have you been having problems with the courts recently?
I thought a post on this would be a good idea as I have had a couple instances recently where the courts have been plain wrong in the information they have given.
Often non lawyers think that if someone from the court tells them something it must be right. Because it is the court.
However it is important to realise that the person who answers your phone call (if you are lucky enough to get your call answered at all) or who deals with your query is unlikely to have had much (or perhaps even any) legal training. Its not like its the Judge speaking to you. You should not take it as gospel.
Some examples of problems with the courts
- A client who was using one of my legal kits contacted me recently saying that the court had refused to accept his claim because he had not written the case number on it. Which is crazy because a case can’t HAVE a case number until it has been issued!
- Then I sent an email to the court recently just to confirm that the file in an accelerated possession claim had been passed to the Judge on receipt of a defence. This is supposed to be done automatically but I thought I should check. The clerk told me that I first needed to send in form N206A. But this form is just for use where there defendant HASN’T filed a defence. (The order came along shortly afterwards anyway so maybe the clerk just had not bothered to check the file records).
- Then there are countless final orders which I have sent back to the courts over the years because the clerk typing the order up has got it wrong. A common error in possession proceedings is to say that the order was made under a discretionary ground when in fact it was made under a mandatory ground. An important point and one which needs to be correctly stated on the order.
What problems have you had?
NB If you are bringing your own claim >> click here
I have a pack that I give to tenants who want to recover their deposit and go for the 3 x penalty. The pack contains instructions on what to do and has the standard form N208 with it. On 3 occassions now the court listings clerks have told the tenants that it is the wrong form and should be the N1.
The other regular problem I get is when applying for an injunction for re-entry where the claimant is on benefits. They cant afford the £150 fee so there is a fee remission from that covers this eventuality (EX160a) but they have to provide proof of their benefits that is dated no later than the last 30 days. Usually theydont have this because they either havent had any recent correspondence from the DWP or their documents are locked up in the property.
So the applicant can sign an undertaking promising to prodeuce the documentation within 5 working days. But the DWP take more than that to get a copy out and the landlords often dont comply with the terms of the injunction
The 5 day time limit for production of suitable documents is far too restrictive
My personal favourite Court-related brainfart is when recently there was a possession claim and the tenant paid off £1,000.00 of the arrears the week before the hearing. As such, the housing officer agreed to go for it being adjourned generally, which it was.
Anyhow, we get the order later on and although the heading of the order was right, the body of it was I. an outright possession order, II. made in a court two counties away, III. over a property outside Chatham, and IV. was a mortgage possession claim.
I then had to spend large quantities ot time calming the visibly distressed client and assuring them that it was all a colossal error on the part of HMCS.
Oh and 1 more thing. Just try getting through to the court listings office phone number…..go on…..just try it
These stories are rediculous! You would never think that the courts would do this, but it makes sense since you are usually talking to someone without legal experience. Good post, great information to keep in mind when dealing with the courts!
JS’s problem sounds like a genuine administrative error rather than a legal one, and to be fair, the 3 courts I work in have a sign up saying the staff cant give legal advice.
There is a difference betwen the advice given by the listings staff over clerical matters (like my N208 v. N1 connundrum) and DJs making legal errors.
Acting for landlord we turn up to court. Defendant tenant says they haven’t had the claim form (we very sensibly had sent them all the court papers as well). Odd. Judge dug out file and found the copy claim form etc that we had filed to be served by the court. On the back was endorsed “Claimant outside the jurisdiction, solicitors to serve”.
Er, no. [1] It doesn’t matter where the claimant is and [2] why hadn’t they thought to tell us?
Judge apologised. We served the papers, adjourned and got on again. It is by no means the only time this scenario has played out.
My sone has made a n208 claim, with 3 other friends, when we chased it up the court said they could not find it, although they had cashed our payment, they asked for another. Very difficult to get all the guys signitures but it was done, when we chased it up again they said, no problem we have it it will be served. We recieved the notice that it was served and then a notice of case management where the Judge said he intended to strick it out because it was served late and there were no sinitures on the claim. We looked at the copy they sent with the notice that it had been sreved and it was the original (lost)one sreved late! But with all the guys signitures on it. We have now had to put in an application for extention of time to serve as it was a court cock-up (this is allowed ruling buy Lord Justice Dyson) and this application also allows us the oppertunity of attching signed claim copy. As the case management meeting is in 3 weeks, this application will have to be heared on that date. Presumably the Judge will then have to give the defendant some time again to come back with a defence. This has gone on for 1 1/2 years now!!
Hello Steve and thank you for your comment.
Dear me, the system has rather let you down! All I can say is make sure you keep a record of everything which happens, as future Judges dealing with the case may not be aware of them. So you may need to provide a summary which they can read quickly.